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Saturday, December 11, 2010

(6) Facebook rants to make you think about bad English vs good English (21-25)

Ramesh Prabhu
Rant No. 21: Why don't we know that non-essential clauses placed in the midst of a sentence should be set off from the rest of the sentence by commas?

UNACCEPTABLE: "Ashok Row Kavi, the Father of gay activism in India said, 'What I like....' " (Bangalore Mirror, Dec. 5)

ACCEPTABLE: "Ashok Row Kavi, the father of gay activism in India, said, 'What I like....' "
December 6 at 12:55pm
    •  
      Samarpita Samaddar And BM wrote 'F' of 'father' in Caps?

      December 6 at 2:13pm

    • Ramesh Prabhu Yes. I am glad you noticed it, Sam. :-)
      December 6 at 2:17pm

    • Samarpita Samaddar ‎:D
      December 6 at 2.54pm
      ***
      Ramesh Prabhu
      Rant No. 22: In my time, headline errors were unforgivable. ToI has goofed up twice today — what do you make of that?

      1. Page 18, lead story: "Champion of free speech become its worst gag"

      2. Page 19: "Miner offers $3.5B for Riversdale in which Tata hold biggest stake"
      December 7 at 10:08am

    • Sudha Aries likes this.

    • Shiv Sujir Guess the 's' no longer matter ;)
      December 7 at 10:24am

    • Avinash Kumai Mr nitpicker...
      December 7 at 5:21pm

    • Sudha Aries bad subbing!
      December 7 at 6.54pm
       ***
      Ramesh Prabhu
      Rant No. 23: Why does ToI insist on using the lower case "i" for the first person singular on the Edit Page?

      Page 16, Dec. 5: "When i was checking in..."; "But for all my trying, i could not match the shared pain i saw...."

      Page 16, today: Headline       — 'I played a baddie in Aayi milan ki... But i got all the seetis'; "When i came out of hospital, i looked like a peeled tomato".
      Wednesday at 10:47am

    • Edward D'Mello One more glaring rant: Times Now reported on an incident where some men were caught traveling in the ladies' compartment of Delhi Metro. The report began with "Women policemen slapped young men who travelled in the ladies' compartment..." Whatever happened to "policewomen..."?
      Wednesday at 10:52am

    • Ramesh Prabhu Hahaha!
      Wednesday at 10:55am

    • Bala Murali Krishna One more from ToI's top article on the edit page: "...waited with baited breath."
      Wednesday at 11:32am

    • Sudhir Prabhu Another one by the group. This time by Arnab Goswami on Times Now
      "... yesterday night.."
      Wednesday at 11:46am

    • Edward D'Mello Yes, that's a common mistake by both Times Now and CNN IBN.
      Wednesday at 11:55am

    • Ramesh Prabhu BTW, did you all know that "baited breath" is an eggcorn?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggcorn
      Wednesday at 2:51pm

    • Bala Murali Krishna I wonder then if the usage was deliberate
      Wednesday at 3:45pm

    • Ramesh Prabhu I doubt it, Bala. This seems to be a case of sloppy subbing.
      Wednesday at 4:22pm

    • Bala Murali Krishna guess so. great find on your part so we learn something new every day.
      Wednesday at 4:50pm

    • Edward D'Mello One more common newsreader mistake for your collection, Ramesh: "The situation would've been more better".
      Wednesday at 5:11pm

    • Avinash Kumai House style?
      Wednesday at 7:52pm

    • Sudha Aries It looks so bad sir! don't know probably their house style, but then it is a grammatical error as well!
      Wednesday at 11:05pm

    • Ramesh Prabhu It's ToI house style, sure, for the Edit Page, but how can any newspaper (or media organisation) break accepted rules of grammar for the sake of house style? I am told the lower case 'i' is at the insistence of the ToI proprietors, who insist that this is "good for the ego" (because the capital 'I' is bad for the ego, I presume). Do you get it? I don't.
      Thursday at 10.20am
      ***
      Ramesh Prabhu
      Rant No. 24: Why don't we know how to spell "calendar"? Caption in Saturday's Mint: "... Toyota expects to sell 70,000 units of the two cars by the end of the next CALENDER year." [emphasis added]
      Thursday at 1:24pm


    • Sonam Sarawgi, Amrita Dey and 2 others like this.

    • Shruthi Shiva Do they really have the need to use the word, 'calendar'? It's not like, they want to say, fiscal year. Next year, is good enough, ain't?
      Thursday at 2:17pm

    • Ramesh Prabhu Good point, Shruthi. I think "calendar year" was specified because Mint is a business newspaper — that's probably house style.
      Thursday at 3:19pm
       
      ***
      Ramesh Prabhu
      Rant No. 25: Why do so many of us spell (and pronounce) "pronunciation" as "pronounciation"?
      Yesterday at 12:03pm

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Sunday, December 5, 2010

(5) Facebook rants to make you think about bad English vs good English (16-20)

Ramesh Prabhu Rant No. 16: Why do we say "first-come-first-serve" when we should say "first-come-first-served"? 

November 29 at 1.40pm

  • Monica Chauhan, Samarpita Samaddar and Saurav Sen like this.

    •  
      Deep Pal May be because we often mean "first-come-first-serve basis"? Or is that wrong too?

      November 29 at 4:28pm via Facebook Mobile ·
    •  
      Ramesh Prabhu 
      That is wrong, too, Deep. What we mean by the expression "first-come-first-served" is that the first person to come will be served first, and so on. So we should say/write "first-come-first-served basis".

      From dailywritingtips.com:
      A common error is to write the phrase as “first come, first serve.” The confusion arises from thinking that “come” is the same kind of verb form as “serve” and that they’re supposed to match.

      One way to look at it is to think of first come, first served as an elliptical form of the first to come will be the first to be served.
      November 29 at 4:43pm

      ***

      Ramesh Prabhu Rant No. 17: I am a big admirer of Mint and Mint Lounge but in the magazine-format Lounge of Nov. 27, a standfirst refers to "alumni Sidin Vadukut" and the article itself refers to Mallika Sarabhai as an "alumni" of IIM-A. In the first case it should be "alumnus"; in the second case it should be "alumna". Also, on Page 49, Vadukut spells "in spite" as one word in his tech review. I am aghast.

      November 30 at 12:16pm


      • Bala Murali Krishna and Neil Ima like this.

        •  
          Deep Pal Is it politically correct any longer to use the feminine gender? We call actresses 'actor' these days, if you've noticed. More importantly, when & how much should a language give in to political correctness?

          November 30 at 12:45pm via Facebook Mobile ·
        •  
          Ramesh Prabhu
          This is nothing to do with political correctness, Deep. "Alumnus" is singular; "alumni" is plural. So Sidin Vadukut cannot be an "alumni"; Mallika Sarabhai cannot be an "alumni".

          If we want to use the "actor" analogy, perhaps Sarabhai can be... referred to as an "alumnus", but never an "alumni".

          Here is a usage note from dictionary.com:

          Alumnus (in Latin a masculine noun) refers to a male graduate or former student; the plural is alumni. An alumna (in Latin a feminine noun) refers to a female graduate or former student; the plural is alumnae.

          Traditionally, the masculine plural alumni has been used for groups composed of both sexes and is still widely so used: the alumni of Indiana University.

          Sometimes, to avoid any suggestion of sexism, both terms are used for mixed groups: the alumni/alumnae of Indiana University or the alumni and alumnae of Indiana University.

          While not quite equivalent in meaning, the terms graduate and graduates avoid the complexities of the Latin forms and eliminate any need for using a masculine plural form to refer to both sexes.

          November 30 at 12:51pm ·
        •  
          Deep Pal You referred to Sarabhai as 'alumna', hence my question. Assumed that was a feminine for 'alumnus'

          November 30 at 2:16pm via Facebook Mobile ·
        •  
          Ramesh Prabhu It is, Deep. I would prefer to refer to Sarabhai as "alumna", which is the house style of our college newspaper.
          November 30 at 2.18pm

          ***

          Ramesh Prabhu Rant No. 18: Why don't we know the difference between"lose" and "loose"? We "lose" weight, we wear "loose" clothing — not the other way around.
          December 1 at 10:48am

          Samarpita Samaddar and Payal Padmanabhan like this.

            •  
              Ajay Kurpad Am reading 'My Grammar and I' (or should that be "Me")' by Caroline Taggart and J.A. Wines.

              Good read and very witty with the way they have put stuff together. Unlike any run-of-the-mill grammar book.
              December 1 at 10:56am · · 1 person
            •  
              Ramesh Prabhu Ajay: Why don't you post an example or two?

              December 1 at 12:43pm ·
            •  
              Ajay Kurpad Lewis says that Louis will lose his loose pair of Levi's at Los Angeles.

              December 1 at 1:45pm

      ***

      Ramesh Prabhu Rant No. 19: Why don't we know the difference between "literally" and "figuratively"? When we’re angry do we "literally" hit the roof? Even Shobhaa De, writing in the Sunday ToI, has a problem with "literally": "Sure, power is an aphrodisiac and some vain journos have taken the aphrodisiac part literally to err... screw their detractors!" One, this is in bad taste. Two, power is not a literal aphrodisiac.
      Thursday at 1:37pm


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(4) Facebook rants to make you think about bad English vs good English (11-15)

  •  A question on usage from my good friend and former Khaleej Times colleague:

    Ajith Varma I am enjoying your rants, sometimes a bit late, but, nevertheless do not miss it, and try to correct myself. I am a little confused about the usage, 'having said that', which I have often heard, specially during a speech, but could not effectively use in my own conversations during a meeting. I like that usage, but do not know if only Indians say so, and if its proper to use. Could you please throw some light on that and give us a few examples, through one of your forthcoming rants? Regards
    November 19 at 4:34pm

     
    Ramesh Prabhu
    You can use "having said that" at the beginning of a sentence to perhaps soften the impact of what you have said in your previous sentence.

    For example, a media critic might say, "I hate what The Times of India management has done to journalism in this country with its marketing tactics. Having said that, I must admit I have nothing but respect for ToI's journalists."

    Here's a usage note from UsingEnglish.com:

    By Davy B.C.N.
    "Having said that" is a linking phrase or conjunction which people use in different ways to join two clauses. It is quite general and can be used to replace other conjunctions, but I tend to use it when I want to put the opposite view or qualify what I said in the first clause. It is better used at the beginning when the second clause is a new sentence.

    I love teaching English. However/Having said that/On the other hand, students can be annoying!

    London is a very expensive city. Having said that/Nevertheless I love living there.

    November 19 at 6:32pm ·
     
    •  
      Ajith Varma Thank you Ramesh. Great, i got it. Its a powerful conjunction if used appropriately. There are a few more like this, which I need to know. When it bothers i will come to you. Having said that, I wouldnt even mind to barge into your classroom, on the sly, conveniently forgetting my age and qualification, as it would be a fantastic experience!!!

      November 19 at 6:36pm

      ***

      Ramesh Prabhu Rant No. 11: Strapline in Bangalore Mirror: "After clinching India's second gold, Bajarang Lal hopes that government will now come to the aide of rowers". Do BM subs not know the difference between "aide" and "aid"? And do they not know the difference between "prostrate" and "prostate"? A story about prostate enlargement problems referred to the gland as the "prostrate" in the headline, photo caption, text.
      November 22 at 11:05am


      • Asif Ullah Khan likes this.

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        Ramesh Prabhu Rant No. 12: Why do we say "bored of (something)" when we should say "bored with (something)"?

        ***

        Ramesh Prabhu Rant No. 13: Why do we write "(sound) byte" when it should be "(sound) bite"?

        UNACCEPTABLE: "Basu makes literary reporting easy — when you meet him, he converses in convenient bytes." Interview/review, Page 58, Tehelka, Nov. 20

        ACCEPTABLE: "It might take decades before mankind's overactive output of text has been converted into bytes." Article on e-book readers, Page 50, Tehelka, Nov. 20
        November 24 at 10:31am


        • Sneha Abraham likes this.

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          Ramesh Prabhu Rant No. 14: Why do we write "upliftment (of society)" when it should be "uplift (of society)"?
          November 25 at 10:30am 



          • Sheela Bhat and Sneha Abraham like this.
            •  
              Suthan Kokila Hey Ramesh,
              I enjoy your rants.... please publish the whole collection in a book form. I will be the first to buy it.
              November 25 at 5:11pm ·
            •  
              Suthan Kokila correction.. publish a book (not book form... LOL)

              November 25 at 5:12pm ·
            •  
              Patrick Michael
              Why do we say Held Talks" - “The President and the British Prime Minister held talks at the White House.” Here's one good argument I read and I agree with it:

              "When you and your co-workers gather in the conference room, are you “holding talks”? When you call someone into your office, is it to “hold talks”? And when you can’t get in to see the boss, does his secretary say he’s “holding talks?” A meeting is a meeting is a meeting. People meet. Even in the White House."
              Amen to that.

              November 25 at 6:06pm

      ***

      Ramesh Prabhu Rant No. 15: Why don't we know the difference between alternate/alternately and alternative/alternatively? Here is a DNA announcement from the After Hrs. section: "Foodscape and Barcode will now appear alternatively every Thursday". Shouldn't that be "alternately"? 
      November 26 at 12:36pm
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(3) Facebook rants to make you think about bad English vs good English (9-10)

Ramesh Prabhu Rant No. 9: When are we going to realise that "ofcourse, atleast, inspite, infact, incase" are TWO words? Today's ToI has "infact" in the lead story in the business section.
November 18 at 10:41am
  • Shiv Sujir Of course it will take people at least some time to get it because a large per cent don't even realise their mistake. In fact, many of them make these mistakes in spite of knowing them. November 18 at 10:57am 
Saurav Sen As many would say, the situation on the ground is "much more worse"! :-)
November 18 at 12:30pm 

Patrick Michael And when are we going to make out the difference between its and it's. A very common error among many journalists in spite of repeated reminders. Of course, they always know better, or at least they think they do. In fact, I've given up asking them to correct it. I just do it myself.
November 18 at 4:53pm 

Ramesh Prabhu How right you are, Pat. That was going to be one of my rants.
November 18 at 4:54pm 

Saurav Sen ‎@Patrick: Bingo. Asking a candidate to frame a sentence each with its and it's...is the very first question i have always asked a candidate. And I do feel like keeping a chunk of wall on the table to hit my head against!
November 18 at 4:54pm 

Patrick Michael
While we are at it, more words that bug most. Amid, Amidst. What's the difference? The other words is estranged. Ever heard of a couple who are living apart say they are estranged?? Strange are the words we use.
Again, Hospitalized - Bathrooms get sanitized. Shirts get Martinized. People do not get hospitalized. They’re in the hospital!!!!
November 18 at 5:26pm 

Suthan Kokila not withstanding, paradigm shift .....
November 18 at 6:46pm  

Ramesh Prabhu
Pat: Both 'amid' and 'amidst' have the same meaning, but, to my ears, 'amid' sounds modern, 'amidst' sounds archaic. That is why the style sheet of our college newspaper, Your Opinion, recommends 'amid'. Similarly I prefer 'among', not 'amongst'; 'while', not 'whilst'; 'between', not 'betwixt'.

I didn't get the example you have given for 'estranged'. A couple living apart because they can't stand each other or because they have quarrelled may be said to have become 'estranged'.

Here's a definition and example from Dictionary.com:

to turn away in feeling or affection; make unfriendly or hostile; alienate the affections of: Their quarrel estranged the two friends.

As for 'hospitalize', I know where you're coming from, but this word is in all standard dictionaries and has now become acceptable in formal writing, whether we like it or not.

Here's a definition and example from Dictionary.com. Also check out the 'origin' bit:

–verb (used with object), -ized, -iz·ing.
to place in a hospital for medical care or observation: The doctor hospitalized grandfather as soon as she checked his heart.

Also, especially British, hos·pi·tal·ise.

Origin:
1900–05; hospital + -ize

—Related forms
re·hos·pi·tal·ize, verb (used with object), -ized, -iz·ing.
un·hos·pi·tal·ized, adjective

November 19 at 10:36am 

Ramesh Prabhu
Kokila: 'Notwithstanding' can usually be replaced by 'despite' or 'in spite of'. Here's a usage note from Dictionary.com:

'Notwithstanding', 'despite', 'in spite of' imply that something is true even though there are obstacles or opposing conditions. The three expressions may be used practically interchangeably. 'Notwithstanding' suggests, however, a hindrance of some kind: Notwithstanding the long delay, I shall still go. 'Despite' indicates that there is an active opposition: Despite procrastination and disorganization, they finished the project. 'In spite of' implies meeting strong opposing forces or circumstances that must be taken into account: She succeeded in spite of many discouragements.

As for 'paradigm shift', this cockamamie expression is a gift to us from the jargon-loving IT industry. I don't allow it in the college newspaper.See More
November 19 at 10:44am 

Suthan Kokila Yup. Good stuff. Your rants have made me sit up and watch the words I use. It's also the only time I have made an effort to look at my FB page ... and comment! :-)
November 25 at 5:20pm

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Ramesh Prabhu Rant No. 10: What's with "wee hours"? In two related stories on Page 1 of DNA today, H.M. Chaithanya Swamy writes about an accident that happened "in the wee hours of Wednesday". Mr Swamy, please read "Indlish", by Jyoti Sanyal — scroll down this post to learn why you should not use words and expressions from pre-Victorian literature in a news report. November 19 at 10:52am

Dipankar Paul Mr Swamy's English maybe alright if people read this and find no errors! :P
November 19 at 12:01pm

Ramesh Prabhu ‎"Alright" and "may be/maybe" are going to be upcoming rants, Deep. Thanks!
November 19 at 3:14pm

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